NARRATOR: In this episode, Bayn Baxter-Smith talks about being a woman balancing family and work. She talks with Eric Zimmerman Zuckerman, who believes we all have a role in supporting women.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: Bayn, I couldn't help but notice that you have a double last name.

BAXTER-SMITH: Yes, I got married, and my maiden name is Baxter. I took on my husband's last name, but also wanted to stay true to my Baxter roots, so I hyphenated it and came up with Baxter-Smith.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: I also came to Zimmerman Zuckerman when I got married. I'm the Zuckerman, and my wife is Zimmerman. When we were engaged, we had a lot of conversations about what we wanted to do with our last names because she really wanted to keep her name and I really wanted to keep my name. We also agreed that we wanted to have a unified family identity. In college, all of our friends called us, "Zim and Zuck," and one day it just kind of dawned on us, "Wait, we could just be Zim and Zuck, Zimmerman Zuckerman." We decided that it's long, but it's totally us.

BAXTER-SMITH: That's a great story. It's so natural for a woman to take on the last name of her husband. It's kind of expected that our last name will change.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: Right. It's so many hoops you have to jump through for something that society is expecting you to do. There are moments like that where it blows my mind how difficult we are making things for women, just by default.

My wife and I have had a lot of conversations recently about the work that women are doing that aren't being recognized as work — things like planning the kids' doctor's appointments, knowing when these documents have to be updated, and keeping however many schedules actively in your head. That seems to be something that women do. We've been talking about how we avoid falling into that by default in our relationship as we build our family. She is more Type A, and I'm more Type, "Oh look, a bee." Going forward, it's going to be her having to be responsible for a lot of that. Not because she's the woman in our relationship, but because that's where her strength lies. Ideally, more people would be trying to divide those responsibilities based on who they are and what they're good at as opposed to their gender.

BAXTER-SMITH: Absolutely. I agree with looking at the talents and skill sets of people as opposed to the gender.

I have three children. When I took my kids to their doctor's appointment, I noticed who was checking in the kids. It was all moms. There was one dad who brought his child to the doctor's office. It is something that falls on women more by default. That can be a challenge because you want to make sure that your time is valued at work. But you also have to incorporate your family life, as well.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: When I think about work and life balance, I'm thinking about not taking work home. It's just occurring to me that for many women, it's a matter of figuring out how to handle both at the same time. I think there needs to be more recognition that those things are just as important, if not more important, than what you have to do in the office or in the lab, or wherever you are working.

BAXTER-SMITH: That's so true. That's great that you're thinking ahead about that and trying to incorporate that mindset in your family life.

Another challenge that I had been thinking about is women being heard in the workplace. I've had a lot of conversations with women in different groups in different places — not just here at Mayo, but outside of Mayo — and that seems to be a common thread, whether it's by their colleagues or by leadership. I know for myself, there are times when I've experienced that, where I'll be talking and it's glossed over. Sometimes what I say will be rephrased and parroted back to me. It's kind of like, "I just said that."

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: It feels like one of those opportunities where everyone has the chance to step up and say, "Hey, Bayn has a good idea over here." I feel like a lot of guys will jump straight to the problem-solver mindset.

BAXTER-SMITH: Sometimes it can be hard to kind of jump in. One of the things I learned to do is start to value my own ideas and opinions enough to feel comfortable saying, "Let's go back to that topic," especially if it's something that is really important and I've noticed that it is being well-received.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: It seems as though that's not something we're telling a lot of women they should be doing.

BAXTER-SMITH: It did take me a little while to do that. The Greater Leadership Opportunities for Women MERG had a speaker come in, and she was talking about finding your authentic voice and picturing yourself as a superhero. One of the things that stood out to me was being OK with speaking up and being more assertive with speech.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: Is there something that men could be doing in these meetings, too?

BAXTER-SMITH: Empower them to speak up. If they look like they're trying to say something or they have an idea say, "Bayn, do you have something that you wanted to add?" It takes away the uncomfortable feeling of trying to jump in. Another thing would be to make sure that you're recognizing when things are being parroted. Make a joke out of it and say, "Did you realize that you said the same exact thing that she said?" Just so that it would be kind of funny.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: It's such a great way to defuse the tension in the situation but still draw attention to the fact that someone had already said that. I think that can be really effective.

BAXTER-SMITH: I think that's what's important for women. Making sure that women feel validated that the things that they're sharing are important and that they're being heard. So it's not just falling on deaf ears.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: I think for me a lot of it is trying to keep my eyes and ears open for when someone is feeling uncomfortable or when I see that someone is struggling, I ask them: "Are you OK? Is there anything I can do to help you?" And just being there and making sure that the women around me are feeling seen, feeling heard and feeling supported.

BAXTER-SMITH: I notice when people do that, it's encouraging and it's really important for women to feel that. It does help in building that confidence, especially if you're a woman who's trying to seek leadership opportunities and you're trying to build relationships.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: I have not always been 100% successful at being completely aware. I think we all have those biases. We all have those assumptions in our heads, and sometimes they show themselves. I think the best thing that happens is when somebody can call you on it in a productive way and give you that feedback. I try to take that feedback with humility and an opportunity to do better next time. A really important part of being an ally nowadays is recognizing that you're not going to be perfect.

Why do you find it so important to share these experiences?

BAXTER-SMITH: So that women don't feel like they're alone. It builds a unit of people that you can talk to. It creates opportunity for growth. It also shines light on the issue, so that it can increase people's awareness — not just other women — but the men in the workplace and leadership. Hopefully they can see where some of these issues lie. Once you start to talk, it gets traction and people want to know more. They want to know how they can change or promote change.

The GLOW MERG has been huge in shining light on these different areas. Last year, we had several conferences where speakers came in and touched on these topics. Create a community for women, so they can see, be around peers and colleagues who are in a similar situation as them who are trying to grow their skills and be more assertive in certain areas. Within the GLOW MERG, there are opportunities to be in a leadership role. These are resume-builders. All of our events are always open to men. We encourage men to come so they can become allies like you, and take what they're learning and maybe change the atmosphere in their own work units.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: As a man, I would walk in and feel a little bit as though I don't have these experiences.

BAXTER-SMITH: Definitely come with an open mind. Be ready to receive anything that's brought up and put a little bit of empathy on it. Put yourself in those shoes. "If that were my experience, how would I feel?" Or if that's the experience that your wife, or your mom or your daughter is going through, how would that make you feel? What would you want to do to change it? Once you know what the challenges are, you can realign yourself so that you can be more open to change. I think it starts with awareness.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: I also think that because it generally is men who are in those positions of power, who can effect those changes and have not quite done so yet. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

BAXTER-SMITH: It is a joint effort.

ZIMMERMAN ZUCKERMAN: That idea of "It's just a women's issue" drives me just a little bit crazy. I think that real men want the best for the women in their lives. That means trying to get rid of the rules that are currently holding them back, and the biases and all of that. It's weird because even though women have been in the workplace for a long time now, a lot of our policies and attitudes are lingering from a time when men were expected to be the breadwinners and women were expected to tend the home. But more and more men are now finding themselves in dual-income households. Personally, I would like it if my wife were paid the real value of her work because that's just going to be good for both of us.

A lot of people feel like being an advocate and an ally means taking on so much more than we have time for. You don't have to organize the rally to make a difference. There's a whole spectrum of ways to be an ally. You need to listen with an open mind when women are trying to share their experiences. I also think that to be an ally, you have to recognize that everyone has their biases and just be prepared to take feedback with humility. Feedback is a gift.

BAXTER-SMITH: Being intentional about listening — that's a big thing. Intentional listening means you're not thinking about your response while the person is talking. Also, include your female counterparts in discussions, projects and brainstorming sessions, so there's the opportunity for growth or building confidence in speaking up. The other thing that I would say is for women to be around other women, or even men, who are like-minded. You know that they're going to support you and encourage you. It's always good to have a cheerleader in your pocket. One of my favorite things is just finding a mentor. I have mentors in all aspects of my life for different things, and I'm a firm believer that mentors are needed.

NARRATOR: After listening to Bayn and Eric, reflect on their conversation. What can you do to actively support the women in your workplace?